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- Just How Powerful is Freeza
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| Just How Powerful is Freeza | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 5 2014, 04:41 PM (1,255 Views) | |
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Jun 5 2014, 04:41 PM Post #1 |
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I'm a guy who is constantly judging fights and making percentage gaps and I noticed that even a person like myself who does not go by the Daizenshuu much, can fall victim to such a thought process for one of the most highly regarded battle power sections. The more I look at the Freeza Saga the more I see Goku's 3 million number as a gap that seems way too small. First off, Freeza says his power is over 1 million. That number should probably correlate to what we view Goku as when he's stated to be over 8,000. Somewhere between 8,001-8,300 sounds ok. Most of us prefer to have Freeza double his 530,000 power and end up with 1,060,000. Which is fine. But if you are not worried about making the Daizenshuu numbers work, it would be fine to have him anywhere in a 1.01-1.3 million range. Freeza's 2nd Form has 3 levels of power. Each seem to place him on a much higher tier than the last. His first power up was in response to Gohan doing a bull rush on him. Piccolo states that Freeza's power has jumped astoundingly so. For me, I think any sort of substantial power up should result in at least an 85% gap. It's tough to determine how to balance it out but there are ways. Let's start from the beginning. 2nd Form Freeza's 1st Power Up Piccolo - Freeza's power jumped astoundingly!!! Gohan!! I'm coming!!! Gohan- It can't be... His chi is getting even stronger!! Vegeta- That means...He can control his battle strength?! This doesn't sound like a bull crap power up. It's not enormous, but it is substantial. So right now I'm thinking Freeza 2nd Form ( Over a million ) 1,200,000 Sounds decent enough. Freeza 2nd Form ( Powered Up ) 1,400,000 - 1,500,000 An 80-85% gap here sounds decent. Piccolo and Freeza fight it out and it is a very close fight. Krillen thinks they are equal and Vegeta corrects him and says Piccolo is even stronger. The fight depicts this as well. So this is a very close contested battle with one being slightly ahead. This is a 95% gap imo. A perfect example of it. Piccolo 1,450,000-1,550,000 Depends on where you have Freeza. But I feel Powered Up 2nd Form Freeza should be ~ Weighted Piccolo. Next Freeza lets on he wasn't showing his total power in the form. Freeza goes on to trash Piccolo badly with ease. This is quite a power up in itself. Piccolo is surprisingly damaged after just a couple of hits. This gap could be anywhere from 80-85% as well. Perhaps more. Freeza 2nd Form Full Power 1,750,000-2,000,000 Piccolo shows he was wearing weights. I think Piccolo should be a little bit stronger than Freeza's 2nd Power but not by much. Similar to how it was before. Piccolo and Gohan both seem pretty confident in Piccolos new powers compared to Freeza. I can give him a bit more than he had before but I wouldn't go crazy. Piccolo 1,850,000-2,250,000 Freeza: My power increases hugely every time I transform. 3rd Form Freeza Piccolo: You're a monster. Krillen: He didn't change that much. Vegeta: Fool can't you feel his power. He's never been like this before!! Goku: I might not even be able to win if I'm completely healed. What should I do? So all in all, another large power up here. Most likely larger than any of his power ups within his 2nd Form. 3rd Form Freeza outspends Piccolo badly and then light him up with ki blasts that Piccolo is helpless to avoid. I'd say a 70-75% gap here is warranted. Piccolo is helpless, we don't get to see any hand to hand action all that much so it is hard to tell. But it should be a hefty gap for sure. Freeza 3rd Form- 2,500,000-3,000,000 As you can see, we are already hitting the Daizneshuu's battle power number for Goku. As you will see, Goku is worlds above 3rd Form Freeza and Piccolo. Freeza's True Form Piccolo : This is some incredibly huge chi! Krillen: Here he comes, more monstrous than ever. Freeza appears to be a god before them. So badly so, Piccolo might as well be as strong as Krillen and Gohan at this point. He's widen the lead so far they are indistinguishable. Only Vegeta can see his movements and he seems confident, but not overly so. I think he is on par or a bit above what Freeza is showing here. Either way, Freeza's power up was very substantial. I think it should be 50-66% gap of his previous power. Freeza True Form Initially 5,000,000-6,000,000 Vegeta seems to be slightly ahead, on par or just around the general area of this level. Only to find out, this is just a very basic level that Freeza is showing. Freeza increases his speed and Vegeta can't even see him anymore. Freeza has to take Vegeta's blast serious and definitely uses some real effort to bounce it back although I don't think he needed to go all out to do so. Either way, what Freeza was doing to Vegeta was ridiculous. and he literally two shots Vegeta. This gap could be quite tremendous. But I think the same 50-66% gap seems good enough here. Vegeta 5,000,000 - 6,000,000 Freeza's Actual Initial Ki 8,000,000,000-12,000,000 Goku shows up and clowns Freeza a bit and they go on to fight and show they haven't been trying very hard against each other at all. They start to get real serious and Freeza is openly defensively, not using his hands and is tooling Goku for the most part, yet Goku is able to be competitive by sheer determination. I think this gap is a bit larger than most people would think. Goku is probably something like 86-88% of Freeza here. Goku 10,000,000-11,000,000 Alright, as I've shown you guys, without even getting too crazy, one could make their lists drastically different than what the guidebooks offered us. This is a very in depth read, but hey Neo is down today so I'll hang out here for the day. |
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Jun 5 2014, 06:15 PM Post #2 |
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If I were to follow the scouter battle powers, I would end up with something like this: Vegeta Initial: 500,000 First Form Freeza: 530,000 Second Form Freeza Initial: 1,060,000 Second Form Freeza Powered Up: 1,400,000 Piccolo Initial: 1,500,000 Second Form Freeza Full Power: 1,800,000 Piccolo Without Weights: 2,250,000 Third Form Freeza: 3,000,000 Initial True Form Freeza: 7,500,000 Vegeta Post Zenkai: 8,333,333 Goku: 11,111,111 True Form Freeza Warming Up: 12,500,000 In short, there is really no way of being minimalist during the Freeza fight... Freeza was so powerful compared to everyone else in the universe around the time, it's insane. Freeza was stronger than Vegeta during their first fight, but not by much at all... But Gohan and Kuririn were there to help Vegeta and push Freeza to transform... I imagine a 20% gap between Full Power Second Form Freeza and Piccolo Without Weights is enough to make him transform... Although they weren't shown fighting. True Form Freeza Warming Up has to be at least x1.5 stronger than Post Zenkai Vegeta, too, I feel, no matter how minimalist you are, I can't see it lower than that, IMO. Edited by Big Green The Yoshi, Jun 5 2014, 06:21 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 5 2014, 06:29 PM Post #3 |
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Izanagi!
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Vegeta (Vs. 1st Form Freeza) - 450,000 / 500,000 Freeza (1st Form) - 530,000 (2nd Form, Initial) - 1,060,000 (2nd Form, Powered Up) - 1,250,000 / 1,300,000 (2nd Form, Full Power) - 1,500,000 (3rd Form) - 1,900,000 - 2,000,000 Piccolo (w/ weights) - 1,400,000 (w/o weights) - 1,600,000 Vegeta (Zenkai) - 2,400,000 / 2,500,000 Freeza (Final Form, Initial) - 3,200,000 Goku (Zenkai) - 3,000,000 That's what I normally run with. |
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Jun 5 2014, 06:32 PM Post #4 |
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How strong is Freeza's initial speed in his true form? Do you think Piccolo would consider someone double his power a god? |
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Jun 5 2014, 06:36 PM Post #5 |
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Double Third Form Freeza's power? Yes... I have the increase over double because I have Freeza's First Form transforming to his Second double that, and the former increase should be larger. Edited by Big Green The Yoshi, Jun 5 2014, 06:39 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 5 2014, 06:57 PM Post #6 |
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Izanagi!
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The same as his ki. Considering the stomp ranges we saw in Vegeta's fights throughout the whole saga, I'd say yes. Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P8.3 Context: after Freeza finishes his final transformation Piccolo: “Wh-what an absurdly large ki….!” Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P12.4-5 Context: Kuririn says Freeza’s final form doesn’t look that powerful Piccolo: “A good example of how you shouldn’t judge someone’s true ability by their appearance…He was far more cute before…Damn it…I had you go through all that trouble getting that wish granted…Sorry…But it really doesn’t look like I’ll be able to save you…” Chapter: 304 (DBZ 110), P14.8 Context: after Freeza blasts Dende Piccolo: “I…I couldn’t see it…I only [saw] something flash…Impossible…” There's no instance of Piccolo referring to him as such anyway, simply comments about his 'absurdly large' ki and his speed. Considering Vegeta's (24,000) defeat of Zarbon (23,000), which was less than a 1.1x gap, it's not too far a stretch to say that a 2x gap would illicit such reactions from Piccolo. |
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Jun 5 2014, 07:01 PM Post #7 |
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Piccolo: He's like a God, but then... So is Freeza. Piccolo : It feels like their power alone is enough to crush me... Their powers are beyond our realms of comprehension. Those are some serious statements about how superior they are to Piccolo. |
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| SSJ | Jun 5 2014, 07:07 PM Post #8 |
 
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Welcome back p, it's SSJ2. I'll give my numbers. Freeza: 530,000 Second form (initial): 1,060,000 For this number, I don't see why it should be too much over 1 million. Unless you are willing to say that Gohan (post Zenkai) is well over 1 million himself. Gohan rage boost vs 2nd Freeza < Zenkai Gohan based on multiple reactions. So if you think rage Gohan was 1,000,000 ish then fine, but I feel he was below that, and he still manhandled Freeza. Second Form (First Power up): 1,300,000 This power up wouldn't have garnered the reaction it did if it wasn't substantial. Second Form (Second power up): 1,500,000 Piccolo was superior to the previous Freeza, but was likely rivalling this Freeza. Third Form: 2,300,000 This number is fine for me. This way, it leaves me some room to have Vegeta (Zenkai) being stronger than this Freeza, but inferior to 4th form. Fourth Form (Initial): 3,200,000 I use 3,000,000 for Base Goku, so I feel his number works nicely here. I don't think Goku was completely outclassed unless my memory is betraying me. Also it gives a hefty gap between Freeza and Vegeta, and Freeza only became stronger when he turned up his speed. Freeza (True Speed) 3,400,000 Speed Level: 5,000,000 I think Freeza found a way to increase his speed without dramatically raising his power level. There wasn't really much of a reaction when he raised his speed. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 5 2014, 07:11 PM Post #9 |
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Izanagi!
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Come on now, P, don't try and twist this around~ That was part-way into Goku's fight with Freeza, no? Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P13.4 Context: after Goku escapes from Freeza's entrapment ball Piccolo: “They’re monsters, both of them…Damn it all…” Chapter: 312 (DBZ 118), P4.4 Context: as Goku and Freeza are staring at each other Piccolo: “They’re both searching out a moment to come at each other…Anyway, it seems like their stupendous ki alone could crush me…” Chapter: 312 (DBZ 118), P4.5-6 Gohan: “F-father can win…” Piccolo: “We can’t know that…Their power far surpasses our understanding…” That would be Freeza (Warming up), not Initial Freeza, right? |
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| + Kaboom | Jun 5 2014, 07:11 PM Post #10 |
 
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Let's not forget to take physiology and such into account. Final-form Freeza is working with a very small and slender body, so he's likely got above-average speed for that power level. He could be around 3 million in power but have speed equivalent to 3.5 million or so. |
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Jun 5 2014, 07:12 PM Post #11 |
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Well that's what I'm saying. Freeza says over a million. Vegeta says Goku is over 8,000. How strong do you have Goku in the Saiyan Saga? Yea I don't really understand where Gohan Zenkai should be placed. Is he enraged? Did Gohan enraged fight 2nd form Freeza or regular Gohan after Freeza powered up? That's a good thread to make. I disagree with how you view Freeza's speed increase. |
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Jun 5 2014, 07:14 PM Post #12 |
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Both of the statements I posted where about Initial Freeza vs Base Goku. What am I trying to turn around? I don't see it that way Kaboom. If Freeza was speed weighted, then what does that make Goku? Is Goku balanced and equal to Freeza's power but a bit slower? Honestly could be the case considering their fight. Edited by p123, Jun 5 2014, 07:17 PM.
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| SSJ | Jun 5 2014, 07:16 PM Post #13 |
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I just made a large post explaining my views on Gohan, I'll post it. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8998784&t=8481007 As for Freeza's speed, I'll admit that I just thought of that now. But I can see it being realistic because the reaction wasn't there. I know judging reactions isn't the best thing to go off, but when there is pretty much no reaction to the speed increase, it makes me wonder if he gained a substantial amount of power. |
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Jun 5 2014, 07:18 PM Post #14 |
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There was a reaction to the speed increase. Vegeta used to be able to see Freeza, now he can't. It doesn't effect Piccolo and Co. because they weren't even able to see Freeza before the speed increase. There is no way for them to judge, |
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| * Yu Narukami | Jun 5 2014, 07:18 PM Post #15 |
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Izanagi!
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When did Initial Freeza turn into Warming Up Freeza? Was there any particular moment when the distinction was made? |
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